Atheist group demands East Tennessee school cease pre-game prayers

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Originally Posted by R13

doesn't influence legislation that effects the entire country

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That's the definition of separation of church and state. It's meant to not use it as influence. Not rid the country or it's buildings of any mention of it. It's meant to discourage discrimination based on belief. That the law treats us all fairly, regardless of our beliefs.

Is a pre game prayer influencing the way the school is run? No.

Is the 10 commandments on display at a courthouse influencing how the government conducts it's business there? No. (If it did maybe so many politicians wouldn't lie and have affairs.)

If you have a problem with religion being present (and non influential) on any government property why not argue to have your religion included instead of ridding it of the religion that is?

But therein lies the problem for atheists. They have no true religion. So they want ALL religions removed. I'm sorry but that's just not right.

A democracy is based on the majority. Otherwise we wouldn't have a vote. And if the majority say leave it the way it has been then leave it be. It's no different than a Dem complaining about a Rep president and vice versa.

You choose to be atheist and have to live with that choice. If that means dealing with pre game prayer and pictures or other decorations of any religion on government property so be it. Just as long as it doesn't influence the decisions being made there.

And let me say I have nothing against atheists. It's their choice. I don't agree with it but I respect it.

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Originally Posted by SBG

.You choose to be atheist and have to live with that choice. If that means dealing with pre game prayer and pictures or other decorations of any religion on government property so be it. Just as long as it doesn't influence the decisions being made there. And let me say I have nothing against atheists. It's their choice. I don't agree with it but I respect it.

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you are talking to the king of controversy............................



all

And anyway, whats wrong with being atheist? I live my life based on a faith that i cant see, i cant fault someone for not believing it. But DONT try to take my religion from me. Im not the best christian in the world, i have a bad attitude and i have a problem turning the other cheek, but i will NEVER try to force my religion on somebody. If you dont want to take part in it, dont, but please dont try to take that right from me.

The problem isn't people who want to live and let live in these situations--it's the hardcore bible thumpers or the hardcore anti-anything atheists that perpetuate the drama and rhetoric.

I grew up FWB. I was raised up in church since I was about 3-4 years old. I stopped going to church around 2-3 years ago. Not because I hate the people that were there or b/c I necessarily disagreed with their right to worship...moreso b/c I believe in faith more than I do man-made religions. Religions are all established by man. Man is, to me, inherently evil. Religions have done some good throughout history, but you can pin wars and atrocities on "The Church" in so many other consequences. The hypocrisy among the stances that organized religions take socially are really egregious, and it was something I no longer wanted to identify with on a weekly and/or daily basis.

Faith is great--as it is an inspired individual choice. Organized religion is where we as fallible human beings tend to get it wrong, as it can be easily corrupted by our own collective stupidity that is only enhanced by erroneous influences from other human beings.

I love meeting people who have faith as opposed to religion. They are, to me, more likely to get into Heaven than someone who is dogmatically sound and neck deep in the Church's BS.

All that being said--to bring this full circle...if you have faith, no matter in what deity or non-diety (b/c it does indeed take faith to be an atheist/agnostic too), then you have enough personal assurance that a moment of silence will suffice for what you need to believe. It's those who are so brain-washed by either the hardcore religious zealots or the hardcore anti-God atheists that will fight for/against prayer.

Agnostics > Athiests At least they have an open mind about things. They seem to be open minded when it comes to things. Seems like liberals allways tell us to have an open mind and be accepting about everything Unless they dont like it.

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Originally Posted by MikeJones

Seems like liberals allways tell us to have an open mind and be accepting about everything Unless they dont like it.

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To be completely fair, the same can be said about conservatives as well.

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Originally Posted by SBG

That's the definition of separation of church and state. It's meant to not use it as influence. Not rid the country or it's buildings of any mention of it. It's meant to discourage discrimination based on belief. That the law treats us all fairly, regardless of our beliefs.

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thats right, but not completely. the separation of church and state was put in to keep the government from naming one religion the religion of the government to avoid persecution, so you hit the nail on the head there. but its also meant to keep religious influence out of the education and judicial system, as to ensure the fairest solutions for everybody. If a court has the 10 commandments, could that not give the idea that the court has those in mind, when those are supposed to hold zero bearing on the judicial system?

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Is a pre game prayer influencing the way the school is run? No.

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Actually, yes. By saying a denominational prayer, the school is saying that they support said religion and align themselves with a certain religion. It may sound crazy to some, but by the school saying the prayer, the school is allowing itself to become denominational, and that breaks black letter law.

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Is the 10 commandments on display at a courthouse influencing how the government conducts it's business there? No. (If it did maybe so many politicians wouldn't lie and have affairs.)

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Yes, because it gives the impression that judges and the system are using them to make rulings, which is unethical and illegal. By posting the commandments, its as if the courts support those commandments, and aside from schools, the court system is the most important system to keep religion out of. Justice needs to be completely free of any outside influences, including religion.

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If you have a problem with religion being present (and non influential) on any government property why not argue to have your religion included instead of ridding it of the religion that is?

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Why does government HAVE to include religion? The most logical and the fairest way to do anything is free of any bias or any religion, meaning no religion is on a higher plateau than any other set of beliefs. I disagree with this vehemently. Government HAS to be non-partisan and completely without bias as to provide fairness for everybody.

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But therein lies the problem for atheists. They have no true religion. So they want ALL religions removed. I'm sorry but that's just not right.

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All religions SHOULD be removed from government. Why do you have to have influence in the legislation? This is a free democracy, and it should be fair to everyone, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, etc.. By letting one religion be influential, its a slap in the face to everyone else.

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A democracy is based on the majority. Otherwise we wouldn't have a vote. And if the majority say leave it the way it has been then leave it be. It's no different than a Dem complaining about a Rep president and vice versa.

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so if a majority of people wanted to execute all Mexicans, you are okay with that? what about if the Hispanics become the majority, are you ok with Spanish being the official language of the U.S., if its voted on? Our country is founded on individual freedoms, therefore the government HAS to work to promote all freedoms for everyone.

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You choose to be atheist and have to live with that choice. If that means dealing with pre game prayer and pictures or other decorations of any religion on government property so be it. Just as long as it doesn't influence the decisions being made there.

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C'mon man, thats a huge crock of BS. Why do you insist that Christianity be involved and treated specially? Why do you have to have your religion everywhere? Thats the biggest problem I have encountered. Some Christians are fine with everybody being free and equal until they dont get to have their pre-game prayers or prayers in school then all hell breaks loose. Why should your religion get special favors?

By using pre game prayers or religious decorations, a school is aligning itself with a religion.
How would you feel if you lived in an area and your child was forced to deal with Muslim prayers in school? What about Buddhist decorations everywhere, and Christianity is viewed as agnosticism here?

If you truly believe in freedom and individual rights, then you would agree that all religions should be on equal footing. That all religions should be held in the same regard by the government. When you start pushing one religion in schools and government buildings, its persecuting all other religions for the sake of your own, and do you really agree with that SBG?

"Yes, because it gives the impression that judges and the system are using them to make rulings, which is unethical and illegal. By posting the commandments, its as if the courts support those commandments, and aside from schools, the court system is the most important system to keep religion out of. Justice needs to be completely free of any outside influences, including religion."

If religion needs to be taken out of the court system then I agree that some of these do not apply.
Lets take a look at those Commandments that would be " unethical and illegal " for a judge to use:

Thou shalt not kill - normally by killing something means murder or of course self defense could be used also.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. - normally means do not lie (perjury)..

Thou shalt not steal. - Breaking and entering, theft, robberies

Honor thy Father and Mother.- really I think that if SOME kids would do this very thing there would be a lot less crime and gang related activity. What is so bad about this one?

Other than honor thy mother and father, the others that I listed would be used daily in a court setting. I left the other commandments out as they do not apply at court. Also IF we want to keep God out of the courts then no one should have to lay their hand on a bible and agree to " Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"

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Originally Posted by R13

a win for the good guys.

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I literally spit my gatorade I was drinking all over my laptop when I read this... no lie :lol:

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Originally Posted by cosmo99

If religion needs to be taken out of the court system then I agree that some of these do not apply.
Lets take a look at those Commandments that would be " unethical and illegal " for a judge to use:

Thou shalt not kill - normally by killing something means murder or of course self defense could be used also.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. - normally means do not lie (perjury)..

Thou shalt not steal. - Breaking and entering, theft, robberies

Honor thy Father and Mother.- really I think that if SOME kids would do this very thing there would be a lot less crime and gang related activity. What is so bad about this one?

Other than honor thy mother and father, the others that I listed would be used daily in a court setting. I left the other commandments out as they do not apply at court. Also IF we want to keep God out of the courts then no one should have to lay their hand on a bible and agree to " Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"

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Hahaha That ridiculous. Those are all common-sense laws put in place that any civilized society much have to operate. You do realize laws have been around long before there was ever any bible, right?

Yeah, a few of them are a real neat reminder of stuff you shouldn't do if you need a list from a book to tell you not to do those things and that you weren't born a horrible human being. You can kill in war, kill if you're insane etc. Stealing is just obvious and that's a first with the "perjury" things lol, stretching a lot, but okay. If was really where out laws came from, they'd all be in there and as you can see, the narcissistic ones aren't in there. And that's not written law, you have the choice to no swear oath on a bible. No one should have to and they don't have to.

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Originally Posted by Milk3

I literally spit my gatorade I was drinking all over my laptop when I read this... no lie :lol:

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That's like the 7th time you've said you did that, you should stop drinking stuff next to your laptop, seems kind of stupid. But they are the good guys, they sure aren't the bad, only to narrow-minded, christians are they bad guys.

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Originally Posted by R13

But they are the good guys, they sure aren't the bad, only to narrow-minded, christians are they bad guys.

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Oh brother.